To stay on topic with online community, I wanted to do research on some toxic
communities online. I was talking to a
friend about where to find a good example, and he pointed me to Reddit. Against my better judgement, I decided to dig around and see what I could find. It didn't take long for me to run into a group that was so toxic, it scared me. They were called Incels.
Now, I'll admit. I couldn't really explain what an Incel is, but from the short time I was on their page, it was not a happy, loving place. Most of the users who identified as an "incel," were angry at the world, and particularly blamed women for all their problems. This is a understatement. Most members of the incel community hate women. I saw in some cases a few members even advocated for sexual assault, which is when I decided to click off and vowed never to return again.
Perhaps Reddit gets a bad rep. But from what I have seen and heard, it seems as though this is where most people can go to spread hatred towards groups of people. One story I found on The Washington Post, titled "48 hours inside the Internet's most toxic community," only confirms that the toxicity of Reddit can be somewhat widespread. The author spent 48 lurking in the section, r/S***RedditSays, a group devoted to shame offensive post on Reddit. In short, members of SRS take posts that are offensive and re-post it with shaming comments to the original author of the post. The strategy is to "fight fire with fire," which generally results with even more hateful discussion between users, almost negating the originally intent of SRS.
I am not on Reddit, nor am I on Facebook or Instagram, so I have no way of really comparing each, so I guess my question would be how do those Social Media outlets compare with Reddit in terms of toxic communities? And does this concept of anonymity help give rise to hateful communities?
Perhaps Reddit gets a bad rep. But from what I have seen and heard, it seems as though this is where most people can go to spread hatred towards groups of people. One story I found on The Washington Post, titled "48 hours inside the Internet's most toxic community," only confirms that the toxicity of Reddit can be somewhat widespread. The author spent 48 lurking in the section, r/S***RedditSays, a group devoted to shame offensive post on Reddit. In short, members of SRS take posts that are offensive and re-post it with shaming comments to the original author of the post. The strategy is to "fight fire with fire," which generally results with even more hateful discussion between users, almost negating the originally intent of SRS.
I am not on Reddit, nor am I on Facebook or Instagram, so I have no way of really comparing each, so I guess my question would be how do those Social Media outlets compare with Reddit in terms of toxic communities? And does this concept of anonymity help give rise to hateful communities?
Reddit has been called: “the biggest internet site that no one’s heard of.” Alexa ranks it as the sixth largest and most influential site in the world. I personally use it for its front page, which completely shuffles every few hours depending on the latest news and fads. It’s a great aggregate site for staying on top of just about everything as soon as it happens.
ReplyDeleteIt was largely unregulated for a long time. Not on the level of, say, 4chan, but people were free to create communities in it—called ‘subreddits’—about whatever they wanted. Knitting, gaming, writing, famous people, nfl/nba, underwater basketweaving—what have you. Unfortunately, there were plenty of questionable (or abhorrent) subreddits created, too. Only a few years ago there was a purge of some of the worst ones, including: Jailbait, Creepshots, FatePeopleHate, shoplifting, and some of the harder drug-related subreddits. I’m not sure how you found Incels, because it was banned in another wave of ‘toxic content’ removal last year, to the relief of the rest of Reddit. It really was an echo chamber of desperate, deranged content. Honestly, I don’t know how it survived for so long.
Something to remember about a lot of these sites like Reddit and Tumblr, where users are allowed to create whatever content they choose: the vast majority of content is safe and geared towards relatively benign personal interests. The largest ten subreddits, in descending order, are: /r/announcements, /r/funny, /r/AskReddit, /r/todayilearned, /r/science, /r/worldnews, /r/pics, /r/IAmA, /r/gaming, and /r/videos. The smallest of these top ten subreddits, /r/videos, has over 17 million subscribers. /r/Incels had ~40k subscribers when it was shut down.
It’s like comparing the Westboro Baptist Church to Christianity as a whole. Does that seem fair?
Interesting perspective. Like I said, I am not a Reddit user, but from how you make it sound, Reddit may not be so bad, you just got to watch where you go, probably like every other social media.
DeleteYep. And unfortunately, if where someone wants to go is a sexist cesspit, they're going to find it - or create it.
DeleteAs an avid Reddit user, I feel indifferent about this post. Yes, there are toxic communities on Reddit, but there are also uplifting and inspirational communities, such as /r/aww, /r/eyebleach, /r/upliftingnews, among others. Just like any form of social media, I think Reddit has both toxic and friendly communities. Facebook has it's equal share, as does Twitter.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite Reddit experiences was over this past summer when I was at work. I was assigned the task to figure out how to work a RaspberryPi (basically, a small chip-sized computer) because I was the only one with --some-- prior experience. Google wasn't much help, so I hopped on Reddit and within an hour I had over a dozen responses on how to use the RaspberryPi! It was amazing and I felt like I was in such a good community on Reddit where people were so willing to help. Of course I could have made the same post on Facebook, but the viewing is limited to my friends -- who don't have that much tech knowledge. So, Reddit was my best guess.
I'm not trying to justify /r/incels in the slightest, and there's a reason that community got shut down, but I think when looking an extreme like that it's important to realize that there's not only two ends to the extremes, but that also Reddit is not the only social media outlet with extreme toxic communities.
Again, this is also an interesting perspective. Since I am not on Reddit, I usually go by what I hear. And now I'm starting to see that Reddit isn't as bad as what I was made to believe.
DeleteIt's great to point out the positive aspects of an online community, in this case, Reddit. I'm glad to see we are getting multiple experiences that highlight the diverse nature of online communities because we don't get the full picture otherwise. At the same time, I feel compelled to add that I do not feel indifferent about this post, as I will never feel indifferent about calling out hate speech, regardless of where it pops up online. Reddit is just one instance, sadly among many, and I'm very curious about what people think concerning how anonymity plays into this behavior. On the one hand, we might see anonymity perpetuating positive, pro-social behavior, and on the other hand perpetuating deep social toxicity. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, to the original author: Thank you/No thank you for introducing me to the community who call themselves Incels. I have been aware of those toxic attitudes towards women, but this is an entirely new brand of hatred made even more controversial by the safe space they inhabit on the web. It is abhorrent.
ReplyDeleteIn the process of discovering what exactly an Incel is, I came across an article (https://www.glamour.com/story/what-is-incel-breaking-down-online-community-celibate-men) discussing the community as well as their ties to recent acts of violence. Authors Samotin and Dancyger connect the online group to an automobile assault in Toronto that ended with ten people dead as well as a killing spree in California during which the attacker killed himself and six others. Both incidents’ aggressors were self-identified Incels and have been widely celebrated within the online hate group.
This brings up some troubling questions about the ethics and power of online communities centered around hate. Though my personal experience on Reddit is limited, I do see its facilitation of hateful acts through hosting hateful communities troublesome. It reminds me of the argument “Oh, it’s just talk, it doesn’t actually mean anything…” The problem with allowing such spaces for groups like Incels is that talk isn’t always just talk. Talk implies opinions, beliefs, morals and ethics, and often is a warning sign of action ahead. Anonymity or not, individuals are connecting with other individuals and being affirmed in their hate. In this case, the online community fostered a toxic belief system that directly resulted in (at least) two acts of violence. In my opinion, that is unacceptable.
I do not know much about Reddit but from what I know is that it is a way for people to get news. I also know that you can subscribe to it and the public post on it about what they want to talk about. From what I read here it does not seem like it is some that is super constructive for the public. When I read this article I thought about Instagram. People can anonymously put up posts and or comments on any anonymous page. I feel that since people think that no one knows who is posting something they feel that they can say anything that they want. It is usually something that isn’t positive. I feel that Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and other social media sites are not something that is always uplifting. I think that something that Kanye West has been talking in the past few days, is about not showing the amount of followers a person has or the number of likes a person got on a picture. This is something that I agree with because people like to judge and talk about something that really has no meaning. I feel that all social media sites have work to do to protect their users. Any user that comments or posts hate speech should be taken down immediately. Social media and Reddit can be used as a educational tool but people can take advantage of that.
ReplyDeleteThe internet offers some of the most life changing and useful tools/information that modern society has to access to. Due to the freedom that the internet provide a multitude of services and knowledge very conveniently.However there is a very dark side to the digital space and it is very unfortunate that there is. There is a lot more illicit and criminal activity occurring in the digital space than we might care to think about. As a result we have to be super diligent when we are online to ensure we don't fall victim or become involved with that side of online life. Digital safety should be taught along with media literacy in technology classes for kids so we teach our kids how to be safe online from a young age. This will hopefully lead to less crime and toxic activity in our online spaces. However it is inevitable that toxic communities and illicit activity will remain apart of the digital world in the foreseeable future.
ReplyDeleteThis brings my mind to the dark web and the nasty stuff that can be found in the deepest parts of it. Due to the almost total anonymity that the Dark Web presents its users, there is far more liberty amongst some of the sketchier activity on this particular digital space. You can buy anything from military grade weaponry, a multitude of recreational drugs, fake credit cards/IDs child pornography and other heinous material. While iIt is crazy difficult to access websites especially the more sinister ones due to the random website codes that are extremely hard to access; law enforcement still fights crime on the deep web and has actually successfully busted “the Silk Road” (a huge illegal drug operation) several times. I find this to be very important because the safety of online spaces should be a top concern for law enforcement and those using internet services.
I am someone who has heard countless stories about Reddit and most to all of my roommates are avid Reddit browsers. Some of the scenes I follow (mostly video game related) typically have a Reddit associated with them. Whether it's a video game, fan base, competitive scene, or something else, a lot of topics related to electronics have their own sub-reddit (most notably, the one I hear the most about is called r/smashbros). However, when you mention the subject of "toxic communities," I have heard from countless people how they find them mostly on Reddit (some others have come from Facebook and Twitter). And, being honest, I don't go on Reddit often because I feel it is one of the premier sources of toxic communities.
ReplyDeleteWhile the internet can offer a ton of positive things such as social networks with users of similar interests as you, you may also stumble upon some of the negative ones where there are users out to upset others (sometimes they are referred to as "trolls"). Trolls being active in different communities can lead to either the individual user or the community as a whole to be classified as "toxic." Toxic communities can drive others away from the site and cause word-of-mouth to spread about why others should stay away from (x) website. This blog reminds me of all the negative types who can be found on the web.
Great work!
One of my best friends swears by reddit and has suggested I start exploring it countless times. I also remember that in high school it was a place where people would find absurd and offense posts or memes. It seems that overtime, reddit has expanded and covers all possible aspects of the internet. This is such a vast domain that can go from news updates and memes to suddenly a very dark place of the internet. As Dr. Ray brought up, anonymity may play a large role in the dark space of the web. Reddit is not a typical social media platform where your name and phots are plastered along the page, the website as a whole is primarily anonymous. This anonymity may be a place for people to feel even more comfortable saying disgusting remarks because they do not feel attached to any of the repercussions of their words. I have seen posts of someone having something wrong with their car and asking other reddit users for an tips, and other users comment offering their knowledge on the situation. After reading this post, it seems that the other section of reddit uses the site to express their toxic emotions in an endless loop of rage.
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ReplyDeletePersonally, I am not a Reddit user but I have heard countless stories about it and the communities that it entails. As for incles. This is my first time learning about them. However, I did some research about them on my own to further understand what they really are and what exactly they do on Reddit. In my I eyes I believe that they are extremely toxic and definitely should be banned online. I am all for communities that help support each other but I feel like these people being on Reddit is doing more harm than good. I read about how they are tying together these communities toward evil acts of hatred and violence amongst those who have rejected them. For instance, a guy who identified as an Incel “Elliot Rodger”. This man was a part of the community as well and in his last days uploaded a video explaining how it is an act of violence that he had been rejected his whole life the next day he murdered 6 people then turned the gun on himself. These toxic communities online are spreading hate instead of helping one another and should seriously be stopped immediately. I personally believe that sites like these need to put in a special effort to really try to understand what is going on and take action on all the bad that is happening on them.
I used to have Reddit because I liked scrolling through the popular front page. They usually have cute pictures of dogs or GIFs and just stories and threads you can spend hours looking through. There is a lot of interesting stuff on Reddit, however some stuff like you pointed out is very bad, like Incles. I never really heard of them even with using Reddit for a short time a while back. I wonder why Reddit even allows toxic communities? Reddit bans a lot of stuff from their bots and filters out a lot of hateful comments from threads.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I stopped using Reddit because they have toxic community subreddits. That isn't something I would want to see. Facebook and Instagram do have toxic communities as well though. But it all depends on who you follow and are friends with. This reminds me of my high school days where there was an app where people downloaded and would talk bad about everyone at school. I'm thankful I wasn't apart of that, but I did get talked about. I don't understand why people would be apart of a toxic community like that. Especially on social media. Maybe it is because they are "hidden" from the real world.
To be completely honest, I don’t really know what Reddit is or how to use it, the only time I have used it was when I was in Ireland and I couldn’t watch any NHL, NBA or NFL games unless I found someone on Reddit who put up a link to a game there. I do think that people don’t talk about toxic communities enough but they are definitely out there. These Incels sound like a horrible group of people, way past just being internet trolls. This is a tricky subject to talk about as far as online communities because on the one hand, you can find great supportive, positive, and welcoming communities, and then on the other there are communities of trolls and nasty people. The SRS community is also an interesting one because they are claiming that it evens out if they shame people who post offensive things. This is ironic too because these people are stooping down to the publisher’s level by saying mean things back to them. If you ask me, this is just a group of people who like to get their anger out online and some may even enjoy trashing on people who they justify in their heads as being worse. This subject reminds me of the online disinhibition effect where people feel more comfortable saying mean things online compared to face to face.
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